interview i thought was really, really fascinating, we asked him about the new kind of politics, the obama of 2008 and where that had gone he mentioned two things that have been a real challenge, one was institutional reforms specific references the filibuster and secondly the media environment, the world in which we live where we only really listen to the people that we agree with, mnabcs or foxes of the world and there's a sense of -- >> sarah palin even said something and she did not specifically talk about fox is that we're preaching to the choir is what she said. >> amen. >> i think there's a growing sense that there's a need for a media -- for media outlets and opportunities that are not necessarily centrist but have different perspectives to make it easy for us to hear people who we disagree with and not recycling old ideas. >> there's a specific problem, as well, in that we trained ourselves or many of us have trained ourselves to go directly past anyone's argument to their motivations and that actually is what you hear a lot on the more partisan media networks. you don't actually